My first anime...?

[lycurgus]

i know seakas would post this, but i'm not sure if he's seen it so i'll do it myself:

Spoiler: show

recommended viewing, apparently

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[elmin]

This thread has moved too fast for me to bother directly replying/commenting to things, but in general <3 sleet for saying what I wanted to say

Minor note about Avatar for Beani; You should be aware that it was its subsequent adult popularity that lead to the shift in marketing. Its entire original run was (obviously) on Nick, and advertised for kids/teens. The lead designers (from the little that I've seen/read) make no pretenses about their intensions - they wanted a Western style cartoon, but enjoy the "asian-fantasy" setting (as opposed to more "classic-fantasy") and anime in general, and paid deep homage/reference to it. Its more than possible that subsequent (wise) marketing has lead the distributers to label it as anime (etc. etc. etc.), but thats not really the fault of the show/studio, is it?

[Psy]

I don't get what's up with the Avatar popularity....

I relatively recently watched Death Note so I recommend it. L is the fucking awesomest character ever. And only 37 episodes and misc movies!

Other than that I'm not an anime watcher, having only watched Naruto and Ichigo 100%. And read One Piece. And hated the FMA manga. And watched Yu Gi Oh: The Abridged Series, but that doesn't count, does it?

[Sophismata]

Ok, my first post took a while to write up, but for some reason, upon trying to post it, my laptop crashed. Spectacurlarly. Flashing windows, warnings, the whole deal, which doesn't hugely surprise me even though I'm running a Mac.

However, rather than briefly summarise what I said, I will once again go into great detail to recall most of my argument.


Firstly, and speaking technically for a moment, Avatar is anime. Seriously, go look up アニメ in a J-J dictionary if you do not believe me. Anime (and I'm sure most people know this) is just the Japanese word for cartoon. While one could argue about implied meaning, word adaption and the like, but those arguments are boring and refute my own (which is technically correct). The point is, I just wanted to say that Avatar is anime. Which I did.

Now, why do you have a problem with this? (Beani). Seriously, I've been watching anime since it was called animé and I don't have this... pretentiousness about it. They're cartoons - some are good, some (most) are utterly terrible, but there isn't some high and holy quality to them when they're made in Japan as opposed to elsewhere.

I've also seen the entire seasons of Avatar: The Last Airbender, which was surprisingly good despite being a nickelodeon show.

Why has no one else mentioned the urge to shoot him over this? That is not anime, it doesnt come close to anime and it is an insult to anime to ever compare it to this or mention them together.

Why?! Firstly, he didn't call Avatar anime. And to be perfectly honest, the anime known as Avatar is superior to many, many Japanese cartoons. (Yeah, this is me being mean). Strictly speaking, I'd categorise them differently - I tend to put Avatar clearly in the "awesome Nick cartoon" mental area, and other anime in the "good/mediocre/terribad anime" mental area, but there's no insult given when comparing them directly. Most anime could learn from Avatar, to be honest. It was well-written, had some decent acting, and its creators were very down-to-earth and in touch with their fans (*cough*, Haruhi).

Even that influenced part is annoying when it comes down to it because of the fact the show basically rips off a style which has taken years to perfect

Cue laughter. I know that you know that Japanese anime is slowly adapting some Western ideas, just as the reverse is happening. But, seriously, "style which has taken years to perfect"? One of the things I've always liked about Western anime is that it has (for the most part) better animation. Japanese anime tends to draw a lot of influence from manga (it's basically animated manga for the most part, anyway), and one of these influences is static backgrounds and staid poses. The only real 'style' as far as I can see is the SD and chibification that is so unique to Japan (of which I think only Dragon Half did particularly well). Also, angrogynous-and-angsty-schoolboys out to save the world, hot-blooded-schoolboys-who-believe-in-their-own-power out to save the world, broody-schoolboys-who-discover-the-true-meaning-of-friendship out to save the world, unlucky-everydude-who-somehow-is-surrounded-by-cute-girls, and magical girls. Which is not so much perfecting style as becoming stuck in a rut.

I hate the show on principle even though I did enjoy watching some of it.

I... um... . Why would you do this to yourself?

I've also seen the entire seasons of Avatar: The Last Airbender, which was surprisingly good despite being a nickelodeon show.

There are a fair few 'surprisingly good' nick cartoons. Also, ReBoot used to run on Snick.

[Seakas]

I tend to put Avatar clearly in the "awesome Nick cartoon" mental area

There is only one nick cartoon is this mental area for me

Spoiler: show

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[Sophismata]

Flay...

Most of the more quirky anime is an aquired taste. This includes such gems as Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, since most of the enjoyment from that was just how badly it broke the mould. If you're just getting started...

Spice and Wolf season one is a fantastic series as well but you have to like talking, plotting and economics (even if you don't like these once you see Horo doing these you can't help but fall in love with them). Season two is a little hit and miss compared to what else is available right now.

Darker Than Black is by Bones (they did TM8) and is about to get a second season, very cool plot, very cool characters and all round awesome series. Very action heavy but also focuses on people a lot, this one is about psiones so the action is always very interesting.

Spice and Wolf, Darker Than Black are both good suggestions. I think the former would be more to your tastes, however.

I second most suggestions in this thread. But your question was where you should start - which I assume means nothing too taxing but also best-of-breed. Since you want dark and clever, I additionally suggest:

• Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex for clever action in between clever plot with musings on the nature of humanity, consciousness and the meaning of the soul in a post-human world. Dark themes, yes. Also, Tachikomas (spider-like tanks) reading novels is awesome. Check out the original movie as well.
• Serial Experiments Lain: Very pretty, very dark. Deals with many of the above themes from a completely different angle. Considered a staple cyberpunk classic, despite containing none of the surface trappings of the genre. Characters designed by a particular favourite of mine.
• Elfen Lied: Dark, oh yes.
• Last Exile: A nice piece of escapism - steampunk (well, motorpunk) sky world within which military intrigue forms, as seen by an initially lowly courier. Very pretty.
• The Read or Die OVAs (and their companion series R.O.D. The TV): Story centres around bibliophiles who control paper as a superpower, plot centres around intrigue involving powerful book artifacts. Not terribly dark, but very cool in some of the same ways Cowboy Bebop is cool - plus more.

The man knows what he's talking about - I will emphasise the Ghost in the Shell recommendation, but caution you about Elfen Lied.

First up: Boku No Pico, i guess i would describe it as more of a love story than anything else, it focuses on the relationships between a young boy named Pico and the visitors to his grandfathers bar. also, there are only 4 episodes so it quick to watch

Do not watch this, I haven't seen it but a quick glance lists it as an ecchi shotacon anime. I'm not even linking it. Stay away.

Out of the 3 you were considering, they are all good. Morgan recommended Code Geass and it is also good, but its storyline is practically the same as death note, so one idea could be to watch Geass, and read the manga of death note?

Cowboy Bebop is also very good, i think everyone enjoys it, after it you could watch samurai champloo which is basically bebop but set in the edo period in japan.

While I really enjoyed Code Geass, a large part of that enjoyment came from its deviation from the typical "schoolboy mecha hero". If you haven't seen enough anime to 'get' the "schoolboy hero", you probably won't enjoy it as much - as such, probably not a good first time recommendation.

Cowboy Bebop and Samurai Champloo are heartily, heartily recommended. Trailer.


Now, I'd also recommend the following (trying to represent a few different genres):

Love Hina (But no more than the first season. It's a harem anime (random guy surrounded by girls)).
Now and Then, Here and There. This is my favourite anime. It is mature and somewhat sad.
Trigun and/or Rurouni Kenshin both feature pacifist wanderers trying to reconcile their past.
Gundam SEED - like most Gundam, this is a mecha. Not a bad one, at that.
Card Captor Sakura. This tends to come across as the 'definitive' magical girl. It's not the first, but easily one of the best.

[Flay]

After watching the first episode of Cowboy Bebop again, I've realised that it's actually very good. I don't know why I didn't like it the first time I watched it.

[elmin]

A long rant resulting in Sean pwning face

Sean, can I have your babies?

[Beani]

Cue laughter. I know that you know that Japanese anime is slowly adapting some Western ideas, just as the reverse is happening. But, seriously, "style which has taken years to perfect"? One of the things I've always liked about Western anime is that it has (for the most part) better animation. Japanese anime tends to draw a lot of influence from manga (it's basically animated manga for the most part, anyway), and one of these influences is static backgrounds and staid poses. The only real 'style' as far as I can see is the SD and chibification that is so unique to Japan (of which I think only Dragon Half did particularly well). Also, angrogynous-and-angsty-schoolboys out to save the world, hot-blooded-schoolboys-who-believe-in-their-own-power out to save the world, broody-schoolboys-who-discover-the-true-meaning-of-friendship out to save the world, unlucky-everydude-who-somehow-is-surrounded-by-cute-girls, and magical girls. Which is not so much perfecting style as becoming stuck in a rut.

I had no intention to reply to this thread anymore as I didn't mean to convert it into a flame war however I had to just call you out on this as showing ignorance. Limited animation is actually a legitimate technique in animation and an exceedingly hard one to pull off well. While it saves time animating it is very difficult to actually stop people from noticing that they are basically watching a slideshow or repetition, a lot of anime I watch manages to pull this off for the most part. If you go back to the old animes like Kimba you can see that the still frames and looped animations are very obvious and distracting. This is of course back when anime first started having heavy influence from the west and these techniques first started being used as time cutting measures. Compare that to the anime up till now and you can see a clear progression of refinement with limited animation which is an evolution I absolutely love. In fact this is one of the main reasons I prefer anime to Western animation for the most part (along with the fact they come up with better plots most of the time). Your overgeneralisation of the genre obviously shows that you don't watch too much of it, or are simply watching mainstream crap, I highly suggest you look at other anime. (in fact I can't believe you would suggest they are in a rut when they are currently producing stuff like Bakemono which I know you are/were watching and loving).

I also pretty much disagree with everything else you said (down to your definition of anime even >.>) but, don't feel like going into indepth flaming since there's no damn point, I just had to respond to something that starts with 'cue laughter'. God I hate flame wars >.>

(Also I realise I am coming off as an anime snob which is not intended but oh well, I already mentioned that I also love and appreciate quite a lot of animation from the west, I simply have a preference for the stuff coming from Japan)

[lycurgus]

basically watching a slideshow

*cough*bakemono 10*cough* >_>

also, it's 'cue laughter'. i felt the need to point that out.

[Sophismata]

In fact this is one of the main reasons I prefer anime to Western animation for the most part (along with the fact they come up with better plots most of the time). Your overgeneralisation of the genre obviously shows that you don't watch too much of it, or are simply watching mainstream crap, I highly suggest you look at other anime. (in fact I can't believe you would suggest they are in a rut when they are currently producing stuff like Bakemono which I know you are/were watching and loving).

I also pretty much disagree with everything else you said (down to your definition of anime even >.>) but, don't feel like going into indepth flaming since there's no damn point, I just had to respond to something that starts with 'queue laughter'. God I hate flame wars >.>

I think anime (and manga, for that matter) has stagnated for the most part, the cliche's are becoming trite and overused, and rare is the director who not only tries something different, but gets studio backing to do so without making the show 'ecchi'. Furthermore, while computer assistance, art style and techniques have slowly improved or changed, it hasn't actually evolved the medium. Perfecting stills so they don't look like stills is really a copout, especially as there are many examples of excellent animation, even in anime, that are just ignored. Kiko's Delivery Service, for example. Not to mention many of the Disney movies, or animated features such as Titan A.E..

No hate . I do think that you should watch Avatar, though (be aware that it is a kid's show). If you don't like it, you don't like it, but it's criminal to refuse to watch it because someone, somewhere thinks it is anime - regardless of the (lack of) truth in that statement.

My post was probably more aggressive than it should have been.

also, it's 'cue laughter'. i felt the need to point that out.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

[lycurgus]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

We've talked about this.

Also,

... something that starts with 'cue laughter'...

you missed one.

[Beani]

I think anime (and manga, for that matter) has stagnated for the most part, the cliche's are becoming trite and overused, and rare is the director who not only tries something different, but gets studio backing to do so without making the show 'ecchi'. Furthermore, while computer assistance, art style and techniques have slowly improved or changed, it hasn't actually evolved the medium. Perfecting stills so they don't look like stills is really a copout, especially as there are many examples of excellent animation, even in anime, that are just ignored. Kiko's Delivery Service, for example. Not to mention many of the Disney movies, or animated features such as Titan A.E..

Again I have to wonder what anime you are watching. Also Kiki's is hardly an 'ignored' anime.

No hate . I do think that you should watch Avatar, though (be aware that it is a kid's show). If you don't like it, you don't like it, but it's criminal to refuse to watch it because someone, somewhere thinks it is anime - regardless of the (lack of) truth in that statement.

As I have mentioned a couple of times before, I have actually watched Avatar and shock horror, enjoyed some of it. In fact you even quoted me saying that in your previous post. I watched it back when it first started on Nickelodeon and even back then it was being marketed as anime (contrary to what elmin posted).

And don't edit my posts to try and cover up your mistakes >.>

[Wayfinder]

also, it's 'cue laughter'. i felt the need to point that out.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Huh, that's odd... I could have sworn tha- waitaminute

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Hmm.

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So anyway, what's this about Seaka- oh yes.

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[Wayfinder]

Also guys guys we've been wrong this whole time!

3 definitions found

From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 :

Anim'e \A"ni*m['e]`\, a. [F., animated.] (Her.)
Of a different tincture from the animal itself; -- said of
the eyes of a rapacious animal. --Brande & C.
[1913 Webster]

From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 :

Anim'e \A"ni*m['e]\, n. [F. anim['e] animated (from the insects
that are entrapped in it); or native name.]
A resin exuding from a tropical American tree (Hymen[ae]a
courbaril), and much used by varnish makers. --Ure.
[1913 Webster]

From WordNet (r) 2.0 (August 2003) :

anime
n 1: a hard copal derived from an African tree [syn: Zanzibar
copal]
2: any of various resins or oleoresins [syn: gum anime]